Huh. Apparently that one's removed in BO's No Trash Memories mod. I guess I forgot that one existed.

And yet people say *Pescado* adds undocumented features to his mods. IMO, BO is one of the worst offenders for "mods that do way too many different things at the same time that have nothing to do with each other and enforce a certain style of play on the user".

BO's No Trash Memories lets you pick and choose which memories you'd like to keep, though, so long as you can edit a BCON.

It's still a kitchen-sink mod. He could have made individual mods for each memory type and allowed people to pick and choose which ones they wanted, but he chose to make a megamod instead. Megamods are what you naturally get when e.g. you can't create multiple Sims 3 core mods, so everyone has to download Pescado's and tweak it in a million different ways, but Sims 2 doesn't have this problem and there is no excuse for making megamods. Mods like that are much more work to test and much more error-prone just by their nature. The way you have to enter constants in SimPE is itself very error-prone and a single typo could make the mod malfunction in a way that's going to be very difficult to identify. A mod to get rid of a single type of memory is much easier to verify, much easier to maintain, and it's the same amount of work to make and test multiple mods as it is to make and test the megamod.

That's why I don't use No Trash Memories. I like most of the memories it removes. I've never noticed extra features in the BO mods I do have though.

Have to disagree, @kestrellyn. Sure BO has some mods that may be bigger than some downloaders would like--but to me, the biggest difference between BO and Pescado is that BO went to great lengths to document his mods, telling potential downloaders what his mods do, how to use them, and even, as is the case with No Trash Memories, how to mod the mods, so that downloaders can customize them to their liking. You can't expect a modder to accommodate or anticipate all the wishes and whims of a potential downloader--they (most often) are modding for themselves, creating the mods they wish to see in their games and then they share it. It's perfectly reasonable for a mod like that to be a bigger one, covering several memories, because the parts are related--they are all memories that a simmer might, and in BO's case, has, deem "trash" and unnecessary. That he shared info on how to customize the mod is just about one of the highest standards for modding and sharing mods. He is letting the downloader know that there are several memories affected, that the downloader can review them and decide which memories he or she does not want removed. Would it be nice if he did the customizing for you, and created several files with batches of memories to include or exclude? Of course. But it's definitely not necessary, and unreasonable to expect from a modder like BO who seems to be about conserving file space and consolidating related issues/mods into one file.

And sure, it's easy to say that there's documentation for Pescado's mods nowadays because there is, now, for some features of most of his mods. A lot of simmers seem to forget, or maybe just don't know, that back when the mods were first released, there was no documentation with the mod. That is the very reason why there is a thread on MATY and a word docx for the mod descriptions, telling you what a lot (but not all) of the mods do. But the thing is, a lot of those descriptions are not complete. Some of those mods do several different things and there is no documentation telling you what all those things are--the documentation only tells you a part of what it does. I'm sorry, but there is a very big difference between not knowing all of what a big mod does/changes (and therefore how it can conflict with other things in your download folder) and wishing a big mod was split into several, smaller mods--something Pescado is also known for. (Apthack I'm looking at you.) It's hard to come up with specific examples years later, after experimenting long ago and choosing not to use some of his mods, but for a quick pick take a look at the batbox. Useful to be sure. But ten years later, and I am still discovering options it can do, and there is a faq for it. It took years of use before I learned that shift clicking on it provides different options. This past year alone, I just learned that it can rename sims and restore personalities. Because those are just some features not listed in the faq given.

At the very least, with BO you will know everything his mods do and the major things they might conflict with. Pescado was notorious for scoffing at the notion that simmers might choose to have other mods by other creators in their download folders or that his mods might conflict with other popular modders' files. His attitude was usually 'if something conflicts, get rid of it because it is nonawesome.'

But you don't have to take my, or any other simmer's word for it! Go visit MATY. Spend some time looking at older mods, and read some of the early comments that go "Oo, shiny! What does it do/how does it work?" The fact that those questions are asked should hint that the description either isn't clear or wasn't provided because MATY was a forum that was very adamant about reading information before asking questions. But don't stop there, read on, until you get to the response comments, some from Pescado himself, where the reply was "Put it in your download folder and find out." Because everything Pescado did was awesome, self-explanatory, and 100% needed/necessary.

Don't get me wrong, Pescado was a great modder, knew a lot of things, and did (and does!) a lot for the community. But the reason why people complain about a lack of description or "unwanted features" for his mods is because there was a lack of description for his mods and because his mods you installed did things you didn't know about or even want it to do. You could download one of his mods and not even know if it's a global mod or an object mod, and therefore something that you should be looking for in the catalog! It's not like simmers downloaded mods that did things they didn't want but chose to install it anyway--simmers downloaded mods to address one or several specific issues, or fix a certain problem, but discovered, only after using some of the mods (sometimes for a quite while) that the mod also did things that they did not want a mod to do or removed features they did not want to remove. They weren't given an option to decide whether the mod was right for their game, because they weren't given all the information necessary to make that choice.

And I don't want to pick on Pescado, either. There were a lot of good and great modders out there who didn't include faqs with their mods. Including documentation and preview pictures inside the download itself was a practice that took YEARS to develop, after many good and useful sites and downloads were lost, shared, and recovered and after many download folders were purged, reorganized, and examined for conflicts. That's why there are lists and forum threads for mods by creators like AncientHighway, Christianlov, and Dizzy, to name a few, because we might have found the files, but have no idea what it does and need to ask, because modders didn't include that with the download back then. Some mods were (and are) even buried in forum threads, uploaded as a quick fix/update for another simmer in the thread and so didn't have a really descriptive name or a faq. You have to understand, modders were not and are not always concerned with making their mods the most accessible and usable for the widest group of people. Mods were and are often for personal use, for the modder or a specific audience, and shared with no real notion of how far the mods will travel and how long they will endure.

So, like it or not, BO and his mods are a standard in modding, and a great one at that. He's got clear, concise, and descriptive file names; full descriptions of the mods, often with detail on how to customize them; descriptions that are posted on two different websites in case one goes down; and he has been open to questions (and at times, requests!) and been willing to help troubleshoot problems, even conflicting mod problems. The only thing more I could probably ask for is a jpg or png faq included inside the download. But honestly, after all that work, I'm okay with creating that myself.

I know I must look and sound like a crazy lady on a soapbox--or at the very least someone who loves BO, I guess? But really, I just hate when people don't seem to understand the past or seem to dismiss an opinion because they don't understand it or see the valid reasons behind it. Or maybe there's just been a bunch of talk about this in a couple different threads and I wanted to say my piece. Either way, often people wanna know why someone disagreed with their post, so here ya go. This is why.

There's also the fact that Pescado often has some really vague descriptions in the readmes, and the mods only available from the director's cut don't even have readmes included. You can google, but I don't quite consider that good practice.

By no means am I saying that Pescado is a perfect modder. He certainly has trouble documenting things and there are a few mods (like apthack, as you mentioned) where things could be split (and in fact, I just recently made a mod whose only purpose was to remove a feature of apthack). But BO is consistently much worse about lumping things together. I looked through his entire site (AFAIK, there is only one site, nothing is actually hosted on Simbology) and rejected nearly everything for containing some featurette that I didn't want. For the most part I do not have this issue with Pescado. Just because BO is good at documenting his mods does not mean that he has the right idea about mod design. In this discussion, I am primarily talking about the idea that, with the exception of things like general-purpose debugger objects, each mod should only do one thing. Mods should be as small as it is reasonably possible to make them, and as modular as possible. This allows downloaders to fully customize their downloads folder with a minimum of SimPE editing. The trash memories mod, for example, would not take up more space if it were divided up into modular pieces. That is the perfect example of a mod that could easily be broken up, and would be improved by doing so - each function he mods is responsible for a different memory. No Sim Loaded is another one (theoretically it's a performance improvement to have everything handled by one controller, but I still think it is better design to split the mod).

Also, there is a nasty vein of superstition in the community, and, I feel, particularly on this site, regarding mods, with a particular focus on Pescado's mods (probably because he is so well-known). This very night, I spent a lot of time investigating a claim about one of Pescado's mods that seemed specious to me, in order to find out for myself what was going on with it, only to discover, after a long period of code diving, that this claim was basically complete misinformation spread around either intentionally or through ignorance. There's so much misinformation! For a non-Pescado example, periodically I bump into threads here where the MTS mod joandsarah repeatedly insists that my extended family hack causes the super duper hug bug, despite the fact that anyone who knows the first thing about how that problem is caused can open the mod and verify for themselves that it can't possibly cause it. But because her friend made a mistake during a 50/50, she wrongly assumed my mod caused the hug and continues to spread this misinformation whenever possible. People like Chris Hatch come to the thread and calmly explain why what she is saying cannot be true, but she refuses to listen and continues to insist that there is no way she could have possibly made a mistake.

@kestrellyn All I know is there was a lot of testing and your mod came back reported as causing it. I was not the tester so I can't tell you any more than that. The tester wasn't doing a 50/50 she was doing testing for me and moo for our ongoing thread on the Super Hug. She said she was sure it did cause it. I hope it doesn't cause it, but I don't know if we fully know all the ways the SH can be triggered to say definitely if your mod causes it or not since Moo isn't here to continue her investigation. I still use and love your mod, because to me the SH is not that big of a deal as we first thought. I just keep in No Sim Loaded and forget about it.

These are some thread discussing extended family and the super-hug:
http://www.leefish.nl/mybb/showthread.php?tid=4930
http://modthesims.info/t/508487

I kinda brainstormed yesterday for improving witch mod for my taste. Spells instead of requiring reagents would require sim to study their incantations until memorized (maybe even be limited to casting them in front of the book at the mean time). However, If you decide to craft reagents, using those spells would amplify their affect (aqus deletus deleting all puddles in the lot and even maybe do basic chores such as making spells, tempus interruptus without reagents would freeze one person). As a penalty, maybe drain respective motive and a bunch or certain spells won't work when it's critically red/zero.

As for taking care of banning their two-legged petsowners?

@joandsarah77, I'm not going to continue the discussion because it has already been done to death and I don't think that will accomplish anything. I'm glad you enjoy the mod.

But before I leave this topic entirely, here is another thread in which it is explained in gritty detail where the hug comes from and why my hack can't possibly cause it: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=586789

Notice that the OP was scared away from using the hack that they very much wanted to use by the misinformation.

In one of the threads I linked, Mootilda was speculating about your mod somehow affecting existing EA controllers.

From what I can tell, it was only speculation- and based upon information given by others, not based upon any testing that mootilda herself did. I think @maybesomethingdunno and @Chris Hatch explain quite well in this thread why that speculation was incorrect.

Oh... but you do?


So create your own site, host people's mods there, and make that YOUR rule for posting. I'm very grateful for creators who can make things I don't have the ability to make, and then share them with me. I appreciate when they put in all the information so that I know EXACTLY what to expect from my download, and if i don't want it, i keep my mouth shut and dont download it. Maybe that's some advice worth considering. Just cuz i dont like it doesn't mean NO ONE can. If i could agree with Phantomknight 1000x I would. Modders typically mod for themselves, and share with the rest of us out of the kindness of their hearts. I'm not a great modder. I've tinkered and tweaked a couple things, but I haven't uploaded them anywhere. It's stuff like this that makes me glad I dont!

Lastly, might i suggest we branch off this topic into its own thread, if it's going to continue? HOW and WHY somebody should be permitted to create their mods is not germane to this thread, which should be about Hacks & CC that you'd like to see. It's not about shackling modders to restrictions based on what one individual thinks the ideal method of modding a game ought to be. Let's get back to sharing the fun ideas.


-gE
>=)

"Don's moderator cap"

Yes we need to stop discussing mods that already exist and rumors as to whether they cause a problem or not. Or whether modders should have made them differently. Modders generally do things for free and offer up from things they make for themselves. Super duper hug is just something annoying that exists in maxis code anyway, plus, THIS thread is about future content, not past content, so any more derailing comments on the subject will be deleted.

What I'd like to see is autonomous phone calls to friends and lovers. Not from Macrotastics, but actually autonomously. Even a want to call them. It'd be cool to see teenagers always on the phone with their loves or any one else calling their friends instead of having calls made to them.

Why, yes. Programming is my livelihood, it is the thing that I have a master's degree in, and the thing that puts food on my table. I do in fact think that my opinions about it are valuable and worth the large amount of money I am currently being paid to put those opinions into practice in a real life, non-Sims-related way.



No one is saying that BO, or any other creator, can't make their content however they want and upload it wherever they want. That doesn't mean the things they do can't be criticized. There's nothing really wrong with BO's mods, beyond me not personally wanting most of them, I just disagree with some of his design decisions.

I'm sorry, do you expect us to pour our own cat food and clean up after ourselves? I am offended. What do you think we keep human slaves for?

I realize that you were just answering a question @kestrellyn but get back to the thread subject. If you wish to discuss the subject further, there are other ways to do so, outside of this thread. Last warning.

I would love to see new social interactions for aliens and vampires. It would be cool if vampires could mesmerize their victims in order to force them to do something (vampire equivalent to influence) or to give them some information (i.e. about interests, desires, fears, skills). Aliens could use telepathy for those interactions. It would be great if Sophie-David's alien token was used to check whether a Sim is an alien, because it let's a player choose who is recognized as an alien. But I can only dream about it.

At first I thought auto phone calls might be nice. Then I remembered all the phone calls my sims get to chat or to be invited on a outing/date, and why a "turn off phone" option was added in the first place. It might be a little different if the playable sims of the household were doing the calling, but again, considering what happens now when the phone rings, I know that 99% of the time I'd just be cancelling the action to direct them to do something else. It even already happens with ACR's booty call feature. My sims are trying to call and spend some time with their favorite sim and I'm all like "What? No. Stop that; you're busy." So yeah, my vote's no. Never shall we forget the Marsha Bruenigs of the sim world--keep phones lines free and silent!

As for the latter, about sims wanting to call other sims, they already do this! Not only do sims roll wants to chat/talk to other sims--which you can fulfill by talking on the phone, but the want to chat/call a sim exists, too. I see it most often when sims are on vacation and want to talk to a sim back home or when sims go off to college. I see it a lot with family members, particularly siblings, who have loved ones in college. They'll roll wants to see each other (the 'sim' goes to college want) and to call each other. Doesn't always happen often, but it does happen.

@Meduza, I think that's a cool idea. Something like it exists with the vampire ghoul mod, but yeah, I wonder if a hack could be made to give vampires unlimited influence/to have influence points not be required. And an interaction for aliens to read someone's mind, that would tell you all their stats in a pop up. And maybe to go along with the old "aspiration rewards are alien tech" idea, aliens could have unlimited aspiration points/have points not be required for them?

There ARE other things that are in the game already that could be a basis for introducing these alien and vampire effects into the game. There's a sales talent called "manipulate". The anims are very much like you'd picture mesmerizing a sim... It could be dracula'd up for Vamps, to differentiate it from the sales "manipulate". Make it more spooky, with creaking and thunder and baying hounds... some purple glowing and smoke and stuff... I'd even be okay with the energy drain that "manipulate" requires, effecting the vamp, instead of taking influence points. The sales "assess mood" might work for alien mind-reading, as well... of course, the options for what you could do with those functions would have to be altered from the sales skills. Why would a vampire necessarily want to manipulate somebody to buy crap? But the anims and the basic function to lead into the actions are already there.

Interesting...


-gE
>=)