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Inventor
Original Poster
#1 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 4:39 PM
Default +4 years after release...
Most Sims games have had a four year life cycle. TS1: 2000-2004. TS2: 2004-2008. TS3: 2009-2013 (August 2014 if TS3 Store sets are included). Although it seems TS4 is going to have a longer life cycle compared to previous games, I believe this is the perfect time to compare it to previous games and whether it's ultimately an improvement or not.

With 6 Expansion Packs, 6 Game Packs, and 14 Stuff Packs (as well as many GBs of updates), do you:
- Consider it the best The Sims game to date?
- Consider it better than The Sims 2 and The Sims 3?
- Consider it an improvement compared to previous versions in the following aspects: CAS, world, Build/Buy, life stages, Sims' AI / behavior, life states (like supernaturals), complexity, depth, content packs, etc?
- Consider it a step in the right direction for the future of the series?
- Consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?
- Consider content packs which were released in previous versions like apartments, seasons, fame, pets, restaurants, etc. an improvement compared to TS1/2/3 packs?
- Consider emotions a game-changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
- Consider multi-tasking a game changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
- Consider the overall quality assurance of TS4 to be better than in previous versions? Is TS4 less buggy than TS1/2/3?
- Consider TS4's graphical quality, aesthetics, sound design, music, UI, etc. an improvement compared to previous games?
- Want to add anything else to this analysis?

Most of you know I already made up my mind as regards most of these questions, but I want to hear YOUR opinion. As we approach the end of this era (maybe two more years, I don't think they'll extend this game's life cycle beyond 2020), I think it's a good thing to start analyzing and discussing what the most controversial Sims game has left as its legacy and what it means for the future of our beloved franchise.
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Instructor
#2 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 5:46 PM
2014 - "Game is shit."

2019 - "Game is shit and also now you can wear drag and talk to a toilet."
Inventor
Original Poster
#3 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 7:24 PM Last edited by Naus Allien : 6th Dec 2018 at 6:03 AM.
@Chax Some random thoughts and comments regarding your responses:

Mad Poster
#4 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 8:55 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider it the best The Sims game to date?

No. While the game has its good parts, it doesn't feel like The Sims I grew to love.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider it better than The Sims 2 and The Sims 3?

Better than 3, worse than 1 and 2.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider it an improvement compared to previous versions in the following aspects: CAS, world, Build/Buy, life stages, Sims' AI / behavior, life states (like supernaturals), complexity, depth, content packs, etc?

Some aspects are better. AI has improvements. Create-a-Sim is more intuitive to use than in previous games.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider it a step in the right direction for the future of the series?

Nah.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?

I hate story progression, and both CASt and Open World caused too much performance issues in The Sims 3. So yes I do.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider content packs which were released in previous versions like apartments, seasons, fame, pets, restaurants, etc. an improvement compared to TS1/2/3 packs?

Not really.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider emotions a game-changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?

Emotions are very unbalanced in this game. So much so that they actually disrupt the experience instead of improve it.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider multi-tasking a game changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?

Yes. Arguably the best thing about TS4.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider the overall quality assurance of TS4 to be better than in previous versions? Is TS4 less buggy than TS1/2/3?

I think TS4 is actually the most stable PC release next to TS1. TS2 and TS3 are notorious for bugs to the point where the player has to be anxious so they don't lose their game progress to corruption issues. I've yet to have such issues with TS4.
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Consider TS4's graphical quality, aesthetics, sound design, music, UI, etc. an improvement compared to previous games?

Yes. I actually quite like the cartoon aesthetic. It took a while to adjust but it feels more relaxing to play than the dreary TS3. Sound design has definitely improved. There is reverb and better modulation. The sound has more depth, where as previous games sounded quite static. Lighting? Definitely. I quite like the post processing effects and shader techniques. The window shadows are a lovely additional piece of eye candy. Only thing that annoys me is how dark the interiors are. It seems TS2 is the only game of the series that got indoor lighting correct.

Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
- Want to add anything else to this analysis?

No.

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

Inventor
Original Poster
#5 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 9:23 PM Last edited by Naus Allien : 3rd Dec 2018 at 10:07 PM.
Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
I hate story progression, and both CASt and Open World caused too much performance issues in The Sims 3. So yes I do.


I find it interesting that the question was "Do you consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?" and you answer started with "I hate..."
You're free to answer however you deem fit, but I wonder where the mentality "I don't like X feature. Therefore I'm happy this feature doesn't exist anymore" comes from. In TS3 you could disable story progression through the options menu or by adding "-disablestoryprogression" to TS3's shortcut. It was not forced upon you. So I'm trying to understand why you're happy this feature is gone for those who did enjoy it. I think a good game should give players the choice to enable/disable certain features to make the game fit their personal tastes. Just because I don't like one feature, I don't necessarily want it removed altogether.

As regards CASt and open world, there's a lot of misunderstanding regarding these features and lag. Like I mentioned before, these features are fine for the most part, but its implementation left room for improvement. In both cases a 64-bit executable and the game taking advantage of more RAM instead of caching to a (much slower) hard drive would've done wonders to improve open world and CASt. Since I bought an SSD I haven't had much lag (if any), so you can see how a faster drive improves the experience a lot. I can only imagine how much better TS3 would run if a 64 bit executable was made to take advantage of additional RAM. Open world also suffered from buggy world maps (ellacharmed world fixes can be downloaded here), stuck Sims, routing issues, etc. Most of these problems are fixed with NRaas' Overwatch, but I wish we didn't have to rely on modders to fix what EA won't.

I think CASt and open world (along with story progression) are the best features to ever be added to the Sims franchise in the last decade. And I'm really sad some people didn't have a good experience with them (or heard bad things about them) and now want them gone. Considering that most games are open world games nowadays, there's no reason not to want the same for a life simulator like The Sims. We've seen what it was possible with 2009 technology. I can only imagine what would be possible with our current tech.
Field Researcher
#6 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 9:48 PM Last edited by veronica55 : 3rd Dec 2018 at 11:03 PM.
- Consider it the best The Sims game to date?
If best sims game means, the one which I had the most fun with, then my answer is no.
- Consider it better than The Sims 2 and The Sims 3?
In some features yes, in some features no.
- Consider it an improvement compared to previous versions in the following aspects: CAS, world, Build/Buy, life stages, Sims' AI / behavior, life states (like supernaturals), complexity, depth, content packs, etc?
Overall I would consider it a huge step back let alone improvement. But if we evaluate features individually, Create-a-sim can be considered as an improvement, on the other hand, lack of Create-a-style is a step back. Life stages are just same with TS3, Build/Buy is definitely a huge improvement compared to previous games in terms of practicality but yet, not enough. We still have too many unnecessary restrictions. I'm a sims builder and I hate the fact that we still don't have curved walls, split floors, modular and spiral stairs, different room heights on same level and such stuff. I can't believe I still have to worry about 1 tile window, 2 tiles door while trying to create something that looks good. I should be able to place any window, any door centered whereever I want. Those are all stupid. I see no improvement from that perspective and even worsening as in previous games we could at least use constrainfloorelevation cheat and do creative things with it. Now we don't even have that. About complexity, depth and content it's definitely noticebly worse than all previous sims games. Everything is much more shallow, few, boring in TS4.
- Consider it a step in the right direction for the future of the series?
No. Not at all.
- Consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?
Again no. I understand that they wanted to create a game technically less demanding on pc, and it worked, the game is smoother than the previous ones but in these years the game industry is all about open world games and there are ways to make it work nicely. I play a lot of games with huge maps, all open world and their performance is good enough.
- Consider content packs which were released in previous versions like apartments, seasons, fame, pets, restaurants, etc. an improvement compared to TS1/2/3 packs?
Nope. They are all more limited compared to TS3 versions.

- Consider emotions a game-changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
Well, I've always found this funny since the very beginning, like they advertised it as if it was a huge thing, for me it adds absolutely nothing to my gameplay. Sim AI id horrible anyways. It's even worse than the previous games. Sims keep dropping actions all the time, take forever to do something etc. There are tons of problems about that. I.e. I like to pause and plan my sims actions, so I create an action queue use the toilet, take a shower, have breakfast, check on the kid, take the dog for a walk and the sim can never complete the list because always something happens and all the actions drop for no reason. Sims were a lot more obedient in previous games. Now they are pure stupid.
- Consider multi-tasking a game changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
Not necessarily "game changing" but it's better to see my sims can eat while watching tv and talk to another sim at the same time. It looks natural and nice. I like that.
- Consider the overall quality assurance of TS4 to be better than in previous versions? Is TS4 less buggy than TS1/2/3?
Less buggy for sure, but not more fun.
- Consider TS4's graphical quality, aesthetics, sound design, music, UI, etc. an improvement compared to previous games?
Graphical quality is just horrible imo. In previous games, yes the technology was older for sure but still game looked better. In ts4 everything looks like plastic inflated objects. Too cartoony, mostly too large, weird.

Sul Sul! Hooba Noobie?
Scholar
#7 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 11:12 PM
- Consider it the best The Sims game to date?
No.
- Consider it better than The Sims 2 and The Sims 3?
No.
- Consider it an improvement compared to previous versions in the following aspects: CAS, world, Build/Buy, life stages, Sims' AI / behavior, life states (like supernaturals), complexity, depth, content packs, etc?
There are some good bits, but overall I would say no.
CAS is more userfriendly I think. Build has some nice new details (copy a room, move a room around on lot etc). Life stages is a step back with teens looking the same as adults and a release without toddlers (and the communication about this was even worse). Sims AI and behaviour is no improvement. Most annoying to me is that the emotions system makes sims behave the same. Has the maid been fixed? Do you ever see the neighbours leave/enter their house? Has the dancing chairs been fixed? Expansion packs are way less bang for the buck then before with TS3.
- Consider it a step in the right direction for the future of the series?
No. Apart from some improved details, most of it plays like a shell of a sims game. I never got bored so fast with the sims base game as with TS4.
- Consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?
No. Less customization is never a good idea for a game like the sims. And going back from open world to loading screen tiny neighbourhoods feels very restrictive. If you look at how much mods improved performance and fixed bugs for TS3, then it just shows that EA is very bad at optimizing and bugfixing. So it does not mean that it was necessary to get rid of CASt and open world. And what makes it worse, the colour swatches for objects in TS4 have almost no matching base colours. They either put no thought in this, or they did it on purpose as incentive to buy content packs. But this makes the lack of customization even worse.
- Consider content packs which were released in previous versions like apartments, seasons, fame, pets, restaurants, etc. an improvement compared to TS1/2/3 packs?
No. Less content per pack compared to TS3. And just as disconnected as in TS3. Then there is still no decent follow up to TS2's Open For Business.
- Consider emotions a game-changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
I wanted to be able to turn it off. It overrides traits too much and makes them have the same. For skill training and work it is just annoying that you have to get the right emotion first. Then there is the thing that only one emotion can be dominant and give its bonus. For example: your sim wants to train charisma. Because he is athletic he suddenly becomes energized. Overriding the confident emotion.So you are now forced to get another confident emotion to get confidence on top again and have a bonus for training charisma Why can't someone be both energized and confident and have both bonusses? It is such a weird design and makes it more a hassle then worth it imo.
- Consider multi-tasking a game changing mechanic? Pros? Cons?
This is one of the gameplay improvements in TS4 imo. But it could be better tuned and needs AI fixes. So that you wont get the chair dancing while eating and chatting and so that sims don't take 4 hours to eat, because they do everything except eating.
- Consider the overall quality assurance of TS4 to be better than in previous versions? Is TS4 less buggy than TS1/2/3?
No. I think it is the same as in TS3. They still leave bugs in.
- Consider TS4's graphical quality, aesthetics, sound design, music, UI, etc. an improvement compared to previous games?
I like how the sims can look in TS4. I prefer that over TS3. But the objects and world lack detail compared to TS3. I am neutral towards UI in both TS3 and TS4.
- Want to add anything else to this analysis?
TS4 is a missed chance to improve upon TS3 and the devs' communication towards the fans is very bad and dismissive. This makes me worry about TS5.
Mad Poster
#8 Old 3rd Dec 2018 at 11:40 PM
Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I find it interesting that the question was "Do you consider the exclusion of Create-A-Style, story progression and the open world a good decision?" and you answer started with "I hate..."
You're free to answer however you deem fit, but I wonder where the mentality "I don't like X feature. Therefore I'm happy this feature doesn't exist anymore" comes from. In TS3 you could disable story progression through the options menu or by adding "-disablestoryprogression" to TS3's shortcut. It was not forced upon you. So I'm trying to understand why you're happy this feature is gone for those who did enjoy it. I think a good game should give players the choice to enable/disable certain features to make the game fit their personal tastes. Just because I don't like one feature, I don't necessarily want it removed altogether.

Just because a feature is not forced upon someone doesn't mean they're not allowed to hate said feature. Anyway, you're free to exhaust energy over-thinking my choice of words.

Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
Since I bought an SSD I haven't had much lag (if any), so you can see how a faster drive improves the experience a lot.

You do mean impersonal "you"? Because otherwise, no, I cannot.

Quote: Originally posted by Naus Allien
I think CASt and open world (along with story progression) are the best features to ever be added to the Sims franchise in the last decade. And I'm really sad some people didn't have a good experience with them (or heard bad things about them) and now want them gone. Considering that most games are open world games nowadays, there's no reason not to want the same for a life simulator like The Sims. We've seen what it was possible with 2009 technology. I can only imagine what would be possible with our current tech.

From my experience with CASt, CASt causes memory leaks.

Because the earth is standing still, and the truth becomes a lie
A choice profound is bittersweet, no one hears Cassandra Goth cry

Inventor
Original Poster
#9 Old 4th Dec 2018 at 5:15 PM
Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
Just because a feature is not forced upon someone doesn't mean they're not allowed to hate said feature. Anyway, you're free to exhaust energy over-thinking my choice of words.


You can hate it all you want. I hate the inclusion of Store ads everywhere in TS3 (catalog, notifications tab). But since I can easily disable this feature in the options menu, I don't waste time complaining about it.


Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
You do mean impersonal "you"? Because otherwise, no, I cannot.


Yes. It should be read as a less formal version of "one can see how an SSD improves performance." I thought it was obvious I didn't mean YOU you.


Quote: Originally posted by HarVee
From my experience with CASt, CASt causes memory leaks.


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I know there are some memory leaks, but unless you have access to the source code, you can say X or Y feature causes it. Furthermore, memory leaks are a very complex thing and they require extensive debug to locate and fix. Considering Sims 3 was written in C# (scripts) and C++ (engine), it is prone to memory leaks due to the lack of a built-in automatic GC. Had the whole program been written in C# this wouldn't be such a huge problem. Like I said, we know memory leaks exist in TS3 but I doubt anyone knows EXACTLY what causes them. I've no reason to think CASt causes any memory leaks, otherwise things like a wrong diffuse texture being applied to an object and such would happen. I've never seen that happen. EVEN IF CASt does cause memory leaks, that doesn't make the IDEA/CONCEPT of CASt a bad one.
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