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Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#1 Old 24th Jul 2020 at 6:48 PM
Default Questions regarding Milkshape 3d
Hey all, I am working on a project atm for the first time in ages. I only did 1 thing when modding the sims 2 and that was adding an accessory to the game so I basically don't know much at all about making clothing for this game but I do have the tutorials to ensure I know what I am doing as well as following them. So, I may use this thread just in case I encounter any more issues with making my project for this game (I.e, textures not loading correctly, etc). I am trying to put Samurai armour into the game and I have ripped this model from Gmod from a user who ripped it from another game (so I don't know if uploading this mod will be possible when it is done for those who may be interested in downloading it) but I have two issues with my model.

First off, the model has hands:

https://imgur.com/wwsBAiQ

This is not good as when I port it into the sims 2, the skeleton/mesh/body I use to assign joints to the model, will have a pair of hands already. Deleting the hands is very difficult because they didn't come as a seperate group like the head. Now you ask "Why not just get rid of the hands entirely", the issue is that the hands have gloves of them which is part of the armour. I tried deleting the hands but its just not possible, also when I try to delete the hands it leaves weird faces behind which cannot be selected or deleted for some reason. I have also tried deleting the hands through the texture consalidation tool but that doesn't work as when I try to just select the hands, the whole group just gets deleted for some reason.

I overcame this issue by removing the hand textures entirely and making them transparent. Now it sort of works:

https://imgur.com/cqkUOW5

But when I do assign the joints, it may get confusing as I will still have the hands as a bunch of faces that will get in the way of rigging. I also want to know if by keeping the hands as transparent/making them invisible, will this effect the lighting in game? or will it be fine?

My last concern and I have posted about this a while ago, is that I have to view this model through transparency > Debufferd with alpha reference rather than simple. I'm wondering if this will create any issues when its ported in game and if it will look like this ingame:

https://imgur.com/bVGs9bT

Originally the texture was a bitmap and it works fine in the simple view mode, but removing the hands through the bitmap didn't work for some reason as the bitmap couldn't add the transparency to the texture, so instead I opted to use a PNG. Can PNG files be viewed by the sims 2? or do they have to be bitmap? also I plan to make the helmet an accessory but the helmet has three groups for each part of it. Do I have to make all of these three groups into one for it to work?

Help on the matter will be really appreciated. I also forgot to mention I've never made an clothing outfit for this game, which is the best tutorial to follow for making one?

JESSE!
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Mad Poster
#2 Old 24th Jul 2020 at 9:25 PM
I do suggest reading up on making clothes via Unimesh first, because you'll need all of that. Clothes and accessories aren't quite the same thing.

There's a bunch of tutorials here: https://ts2tutorialdatabase.tumblr.com/Meshing (Unimesh 1-2 are at the bottom of the Bodyshop list, they're the basics of making clothes, and you'll want to at least know how to get a mesh and recolor working before you start on a conversion, because those are a bit more difficult with even more parts that can go wrong)

For conversions there's these:
3t2: http://serenity-fall.dreamwidth.org/1366.html
4t2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_4J2lBu6Cs

These two have a lot of useful stuff in them, along with links to programs you'll most likely need. With the 3t2 and 4t2 method you should be able to convert OBJ meshes from other games as well. I can't guarantee the result will be as good as if you'd converted a TS3/TS4 mesh, but you can try. The 3t2/4t2 tutorials kind of work fine for these projects, with a few adaptions, because they show how to assign joints and fix the T-pose you need for the TS2 skeleton (TS3/TS4 rigs have arms down instead of in a T). They also show you how to adapt the textures, because you'll most likely need to add a second, maybe third or fourth group for the additional textures/groups.

PNGs work fine. You can add them to a Bodyshop project through Photoshop/Gimp/etc, or directly via SimPE.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#3 Old 24th Jul 2020 at 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
I do suggest reading up on making clothes via Unimesh first, because you'll need all of that. Clothes and accessories aren't quite the same thing.

There's a bunch of tutorials here: https://ts2tutorialdatabase.tumblr.com/Meshing (Unimesh 1-2 are at the bottom of the Bodyshop list, they're the basics of making clothes, and you'll want to at least know how to get a mesh and recolor working before you start on a conversion, because those are a bit more difficult with even more parts that can go wrong)

For conversions there's these:
3t2: http://serenity-fall.dreamwidth.org/1366.html
4t2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_4J2lBu6Cs

These two have a lot of useful stuff in them, along with links to programs you'll most likely need. With the 3t2 and 4t2 method you should be able to convert OBJ meshes from other games as well. I can't guarantee the result will be as good as if you'd converted a TS3/TS4 mesh, but you can try. The 3t2/4t2 tutorials kind of work fine for these projects, with a few adaptions, because they show how to assign joints and fix the T-pose you need for the TS2 skeleton (TS3/TS4 rigs have arms down instead of in a T). They also show you how to adapt the textures, because you'll most likely need to add a second, maybe third or fourth group for the additional textures/groups.

PNGs work fine. You can add them to a Bodyshop project through Photoshop/Gimp/etc, or directly via SimPE.

I'm going to start with the helmet first as an accessory to get it out of the way qucikly and then move onto the clothing. I already have a question though, where do you get the TS2 skeleton from?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#4 Old 24th Jul 2020 at 11:32 PM
You get the TS2 skeleton from a TS2 outfit. When you make a new mesh for clothes (or hair/accessories/objects/etc.) you have to clone a mesh from ingame, which is the one you'll use.

If you go through the Unimesh tutorial you'll see how it works with the skeleton. All body meshes have a skeleton, but you'll probably want to extract an adult male(?) mesh. The basics of making a body/hair/accessory mesh is to extract a base mesh of the same sort from ingame with the PJSE tool, then make it standalone, extract it and change it in Milkshape, import it back into SimPE, and link it up to the recolor file. There are some variations between them, but it's essentially the same method.

You'll need to read through the TS3 or TS4 tutorials (TS4 might be better because it shows how to use OBJ files) to figure out the rest. It's not enough to have the rig, because the mesh needs to be linked up to the rig, too (joint assignments). Without them, the body doesn't move with the rig.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#5 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 1:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
You get the TS2 skeleton from a TS2 outfit. When you make a new mesh for clothes (or hair/accessories/objects/etc.) you have to clone a mesh from ingame, which is the one you'll use.

If you go through the Unimesh tutorial you'll see how it works with the skeleton. All body meshes have a skeleton, but you'll probably want to extract an adult male(?) mesh. The basics of making a body/hair/accessory mesh is to extract a base mesh of the same sort from ingame with the PJSE tool, then make it standalone, extract it and change it in Milkshape, import it back into SimPE, and link it up to the recolor file. There are some variations between them, but it's essentially the same method.

You'll need to read through the TS3 or TS4 tutorials (TS4 might be better because it shows how to use OBJ files) to figure out the rest. It's not enough to have the rig, because the mesh needs to be linked up to the rig, too (joint assignments). Without them, the body doesn't move with the rig.

Righteous, thanks for the help. I'll keep posting in this thread as I make progress on my project. I still want to know btw, for the hands in my model, I made them transparent as I found it difficult to remove them by faces in milkshape 3d. Will this affect lighting in-game? also, will it be hard to rig if I continue making it this way?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#6 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 4:13 PM
For hands, it probably is better to remove the faces, but it's a bit easier to do so once you've fixed the pose (T-pose). It's also a bit easier if you have the texture applied, so you see which parts you need to keep.

If there's some sort of glove texture, you can convert the hands too.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#7 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 9:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
For hands, it probably is better to remove the faces, but it's a bit easier to do so once you've fixed the pose (T-pose). It's also a bit easier if you have the texture applied, so you see which parts you need to keep.

If there's some sort of glove texture, you can convert the hands too.

The issue is, the hands didn't come with their own group which makes it difficult. I've tried deleting the hand's faces in the texture consalidation tool like this:



But because it is part of the "body" group, it just deletes the body entirely. Trying to delete the hands through the viewer is difficult because of the glove that is on the hands which creates confusion. Is there a way to select the hands through the texture consalidation tool and delete them or even regroup them and then delete them?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#8 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 9:47 PM
Shouldn't be a problem to delete them, as they're a separate UV group. This often means the edges are split, so technically they're separate but part of the same group.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#9 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 9:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Shouldn't be a problem to delete them, as they're a separate UV group. This often means the edges are split, so technically they're separate but part of the same group.

But why is it when I do delete them, the whole entire group is deleted?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#10 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 9:51 PM
If the edges are split, you'll figure it out. In Milkshape, mark the faces up to the edge (you can keep watch in the UVmap) and when you've marked everything it should separate clean off if you move it away from the mesh.

Use the "delete" button on your keyboard (it deletes marked faces), not the "delete" button in milkshape (it deletes the marked group).
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#11 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
If the edges are split, you'll figure it out. In Milkshape, mark the faces up to the edge (you can keep watch in the UVmap) and when you've marked everything it should separate clean off if you move it away from the mesh.

Use the "delete" button on your keyboard (it deletes marked faces), not the "delete" button in milkshape (it deletes the marked group).

I am using the delete on my keyboard. This time I tried selecting the hand, it no longer deletes the whole group but I have another problem. Selecting the hand and then deleting it through the texture consalidation tool also deletes a set of faces that are important:



As you can see, the faces for the hand is selected, but so is the glove (indicated by the red arrow). Upon deleting the hand's faces, the glove also deletes (which is not what I want). How do I delete just the hand

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#12 Old 25th Jul 2020 at 11:34 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 25th Jul 2020 at 11:56 PM.
Are you marking the faces or the vertices, and in the UV view or in the mesh view?

It could be the mesh isn't separated by edges, in which case it won't work quite as well, but it should still work to delete the faces that way with a bit of trial and failure. Right now I can see a bunch of faces are marked on the sleeve (top left view, the ones marked in red) that you probably don't want to delete.

You may want to try to tick or untick "by vertex" under selection options. I usually keep it ticked for faces, but it does have a few uses unticked.

The UV mapper in Milkshape is a bit hopeless, and if you mark an area without split edges, it will select all the edges connected to it even if those edges are in completely different UV islands (and I don't think there are any settings to turn this off). Most other somewhat smarter UVmapping tools can work with non-split UV islands.

One tip is to use a different program for difficult edits before you start adapting it to the rig. Would probably take about half a minute to remove the hands in Blender because you'd be able to select the entire hand in one or two clicks (you can select parts of mesh groups if they're separated by split edges or similar), and if that's difficult, you can select faces via UV islands (meaning you could do an exact selection for the hands).
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#13 Old 26th Jul 2020 at 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Are you marking the faces or the vertices, and in the UV view or in the mesh view?

It could be the mesh isn't separated by edges, in which case it won't work quite as well, but it should still work to delete the faces that way with a bit of trial and failure. Right now I can see a bunch of faces are marked on the sleeve (top left view, the ones marked in red) that you probably don't want to delete.

You may want to try to tick or untick "by vertex" under selection options. I usually keep it ticked for faces, but it does have a few uses unticked.

The UV mapper in Milkshape is a bit hopeless, and if you mark an area without split edges, it will select all the edges connected to it even if those edges are in completely different UV islands (and I don't think there are any settings to turn this off). Most other somewhat smarter UVmapping tools can work with non-split UV islands.

One tip is to use a different program for difficult edits before you start adapting it to the rig. Would probably take about half a minute to remove the hands in Blender because you'd be able to select the entire hand in one or two clicks (you can select parts of mesh groups if they're separated by split edges or similar), and if that's difficult, you can select faces via UV islands (meaning you could do an exact selection for the hands).

Honestly, I'm having a lot of trouble with this and I hope you don't mind but can you delete the hands for me? I also don't use blender at all and never understood how to use it properly. I need the gloves for the armour but the hands need to go. I'll attach a .rar if you can do this for me because I just don't get why it won't let me delete them. I tried unticking or ticking "by vertex" which didn't do anything and I don't get how to switch the view by UV or mesh
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: rar Samurai.rar (4.36 MB, 3 downloads)

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#14 Old 26th Jul 2020 at 3:54 PM
It was pretty much what I thought, the hands were separated, but there were some pieces that probably made it difficult to mark them the conventional way.

A trick I often use that does work with edge-split meshes in Milkshape most of the time is to mark some pieces I know only are part of the piece I want to remove (like the very tips of the fingers), then drag this bit down, mark the piece above this again, drag it down, and continue until I see the split in the mesh. This worked quite well on the hands, and removed only the skin parts.

-I did first hide most of the body except the arms to make it easier to mark the mesh (mark area --> .Edit --> hide selection)
-Then I zoomed in on the fingers in the side view
-marked the tips of the fingers (making sure I hadn't marked anything else than the fingers, but I didn't have to mark everything, make sure "by vertex" is selected, otherwise it doesn't work that well)
-zoomed out a bit, moved the marked bits down, marked the top line of the selected vertices to select the next set of faces
-and continued doing this until no faces followed.
-Then I deleted the marked faces, and unhid the mesh (mark area --> Edit --> Unhide all)

I added an edited file plus some pictures that explains it a bit better. Could help you if you come across similar meshes later and only have Milkshape - it is usually possible to do it there, it's just a bit trickier (or a lot depending on the mesh). This one wasn't too bad.
Download - please read all instructions before downloading any files!
File Type: zip Samurai-NoHandsTut.zip (1.05 MB, 4 downloads)
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#15 Old 26th Jul 2020 at 6:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
It was pretty much what I thought, the hands were separated, but there were some pieces that probably made it difficult to mark them the conventional way.

A trick I often use that does work with edge-split meshes in Milkshape most of the time is to mark some pieces I know only are part of the piece I want to remove (like the very tips of the fingers), then drag this bit down, mark the piece above this again, drag it down, and continue until I see the split in the mesh. This worked quite well on the hands, and removed only the skin parts.

-I did first hide most of the body except the arms to make it easier to mark the mesh (mark area --> .Edit --> hide selection)
-Then I zoomed in on the fingers in the side view
-marked the tips of the fingers (making sure I hadn't marked anything else than the fingers, but I didn't have to mark everything, make sure "by vertex" is selected, otherwise it doesn't work that well)
-zoomed out a bit, moved the marked bits down, marked the top line of the selected vertices to select the next set of faces
-and continued doing this until no faces followed.
-Then I deleted the marked faces, and unhid the mesh (mark area --> Edit --> Unhide all)

I added an edited file plus some pictures that explains it a bit better. Could help you if you come across similar meshes later and only have Milkshape - it is usually possible to do it there, it's just a bit trickier (or a lot depending on the mesh). This one wasn't too bad.

Thank you so much for this, and thanks for the tutorial your provided as well, this well help a lot because in the future I'll probably come across the same issue again at some point. This really helped, now I'll start porting it into the sims 2 and keep this thread updated if I run into any other issues

JESSE!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#16 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 3:45 PM
By the way, the accessory I plan to make (the helmet) has three seperate textures. Is it allowed for an accessory to have three seperate textures?

JESSE!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#17 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 4:25 PM
Also, after following a tutorial on importing the GMDC file into milkshape (using the typical lens model, for a male) the skeleton shows up incorrectly:



Have I done something wrong in SimPE?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#18 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 5:20 PM
Textures (one way to solve it, at least in the recolor file - but you have to make sure to add groups in the mesh file, too)
https://rented-space.tumblr.com/pos...groups-in-simpe
(as per step 7, make a new recolor file with this file, and let Bodyshop generate the extra resources you'll need, or it won't work. If you have 3 textures you need to add 2 groups. Forget about the lens group, it's not of any use to you because of the textures, and it's actually a good idea to remove it, as per this tutorial/set of tips, which is based around the same tips as Rented-Space's tutorial. The Lens group is only useful if you're making glasses or something with lenses)

For the skeleton it's just the joints showing up too large.
- File --> Preferences --> Misc --> Joint Size --> 0.010000 --> OK
- If the windows don't update immediately, just click inside them them and they'll update.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#19 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 6:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
Textures (one way to solve it, at least in the recolor file - but you have to make sure to add groups in the mesh file, too)
https://rented-space.tumblr.com/pos...groups-in-simpe
(as per step 7, make a new recolor file with this file, and let Bodyshop generate the extra resources you'll need, or it won't work. If you have 3 textures you need to add 2 groups. Forget about the lens group, it's not of any use to you because of the textures, and it's actually a good idea to remove it, as per this tutorial/set of tips, which is based around the same tips as Rented-Space's tutorial. The Lens group is only useful if you're making glasses or something with lenses)

For the skeleton it's just the joints showing up too large.
- File --> Preferences --> Misc --> Joint Size --> 0.010000 --> OK
- If the windows don't update immediately, just click inside them them and they'll update.

you're a life saver, thanks

JESSE!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#20 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 7:43 PM
I have followed an old tutorial on making accessories and the helmet does not show in bodyshop:



But it shows up when previewing in SimPE:



Very strange and confusing. What could I have done wrong?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#21 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 8:45 PM
There's no skeleton there. If it was, and you click to preview, the joints should show to the right, where it now says "Display mesh".

Also, if you made a project based on other files, I don't think the files show until you've linked them up (you can usually scrap the project folder after making the first file, until you start making recolors, where you usually have to make a new project anyway - click the "import to game" button and find the file in SavedSims that you can continue working with. The one in Projects is just a template).
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#22 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 9:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
There's no skeleton there. If it was, and you click to preview, the joints should show to the right, where it now says "Display mesh".

Also, if you made a project based on other files, I don't think the files show until you've linked them up (you can usually scrap the project folder after making the first file, until you start making recolors, where you usually have to make a new project anyway - click the "import to game" button and find the file in SavedSims that you can continue working with. The one in Projects is just a template).

I'm just going to do a fresh restart on this because I feel like I made too many mistakes doing this. Another thing is I don't get what you mean by the projects and saved sims folder, I didn't have one at first but just now I got one to show up. Do you mean that if the it is saved in projects it won't show up correctly in-game?

JESSE!
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#23 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 9:36 PM
The error I am not running into is "Parent Cres was not found, unable to build joint hirearchy", this must be the problem. Why is this happening?

JESSE!
Mad Poster
#24 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 9:55 PM Last edited by simmer22 : 27th Jul 2020 at 10:08 PM.
The first project folder you make will just be of the cloned file you're going to link up to the mesh (won't have anything important in it and can't be reused unless you need more files to link up), so you can delete the project once you've imported a file to SavedSims. It was also a reminder to not use the package files in the Project folder for linking in SimPE (they're only templates - the actual working files are imported to SavedSims). Wasn't sure if you knew, so thought I'd mention it in case you didn't know, and happen stumble across that particular problem at some point.

If you get the "parent cres not found", you usually have to start over with the mesh. Means something went wrong with the Cres or the mesh, and there's an error in the file. Most likely the cres can't find the mesh, and that's why you're having problems.
Lab Assistant
Original Poster
#25 Old 27th Jul 2020 at 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simmer22
The first project folder you make will just be of the cloned file you're going to link up to the mesh (won't have anything important in it and can't be reused unless you need more files to link up), so you can delete the project once you've imported a file to SavedSims. It was also a reminder to not use the package files in the Project folder for linking in SimPE (they're only templates - the actual working files are imported to SavedSims).

If you get the "parent cres not found", you usually have to start over with the mesh. Means something went wrong with the Cres or the mesh, and there's an error in the file. Most likely the cres can't find the mesh, and that's why you're having problems.

Yeah I've really messed this up, very badly. It's very bad as well because now the default glasses no longer appear in game (For adult male) as well which means I've messed with the actual mesh itself. Because of this, should I reinstall or is there a fix for that?

JESSE!
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