Ugh. I have no love for this game as we all know, but I'll continue to give people that mod for this game all the kudos. It takes a special kind of person do deal with this BS on a regular basis.

If Father Winter has to 'regenerate' because he keeps losing his status as a NPC, does this contribute to the save bloat problems TS4 has? Does the game save all of them? Are the now non-NPC Father Winter's culled? Does that also mean all the Bob Pancakes, Bella Goths, ect... are also continually being regenerated?

It can contribute to crippled, bloated save files. In fact two years ago or thereabouts there was a very serious spawning problem with Father Winter that Maxis had to fix as it was game breaking. Though that was not related to the other trait removing problem - as far as I can tell. Perhaps mildly, but not definitively.

It's easier to tell with the likes of Father Winter, as he is usually easy to find in the homeless sim bin. Any duplicated versions should also be found there, and as such highlighting the original is now redundant and will not be taking up that role again. Surplus to requirements. And while residing in homeless bin, could be subject to a culling. But that's kinda random if it will cull useless original or not. If the game spawns special NPCs to reside in the hidden bin, that's where it can become more problematic. Because player cannot view hidden bin contents without mods, (MC) and no culling is performed on hidden bin sims. If replacements are multiplying in there it could lead to game save bloat. In my own game I have seen Pollination Aliens building up in there due to special trait removal and replacements, though not in any game breaking numbers.

As far as normal sims go, Pancakes, Goths and so on, they are not issued with such unique hidden traits, so have none to be taken from them like cats and dogs, furthermore, are not typically on any venue Sim Filter banned lists. (Except for things like Star Wars Batuu visiting.) So then there is no mechanic to replace them, spawn more of the same, in the way the game would have to if they were special NPCs with a unique job. Maxis do not see normal sims casually (inexplicably) turning up in the most unusual places, like Jungle Adventure locales, as being odd. I don't mean playing the part of fellow Adventures, suited and booted as such. That's acceptable. I mean when you finally discover the hidden baths as part of jungle quests, then thereafter normal sims start coming, dressed normally, like it's a normal venue anyone can easily get to. That's where you'll need the help of modders to fine tune this absurdity.

I remember the attack of Father Winter's beard that caused a lot of strife within the community. The torches and pitchforks never seem to be able to collect dust for long as apparently there were gremlins hiding out in the EA App earlier today. Nobody could play anything that is linked to the app. It isn't just Maxis that uses the masses as guinea pigs. I digress.

Thanks for taking the time to explain these things. I don't know why I find it interesting as it certainly doesn't make me want to buy the game, but it is interesting nonetheless.

The short version is it sucks compared to Sims 3

LOL it has some good things and is fun for a while......... but just a while and I get bored soon. I never get bored in 3. Never.

As a supernatural player, THIS is the one that gets me the most. And it's one of the reasons I am SUPER thankful for this game's mod community (especially SpinningPlumBob and Cepzid).

This was a problem in TS3 as well but it's even worse in TS4. We should not still be at a point where we have entire packs centered around supernatural life states that only adult sims can benefit from in any way (I'm including teens in that because, even with HSY, there's not really much of a difference between them and adults).

I shouldn't need mods for functioning spellcaster, werewolf, and mermaid children. The werewolf one is especially annoying because that was something the game already had on its own, back in TS3.

Credit where credit is due, recent packs have done a better job of giving us activities for the other age groups. But the fact that it took so long (about the time we got Snowy Escape), coupled with the fact that supernatural children can't do anything without mods, really does tell you where this game's priorities were for most of its existence. As others have said, it spent so much time as a Young Adult party simulator that now it's trying to play catch up to try and remedy that.

And I say this as someone who doesn't hate TS4. In fact I've actually come to like it (though I can't tell you how much I'd like it if I didn't have a shit ton of mods and CC). But it really did drop the ball in SO many ways, in comparison to past games. That became even clearer when I went back and played TS2 a couple of weeks ago. Even as someone who enjoys TS4 well enough, there are SO many problems that it has in comparison to past games, that I could list them off the top of my head like it's the alphabet. But it seems like everyone else in this thread has it covered.

It's so legit that The original Sims has only one thing called Expansion Packs

Then The Sims 2 has 2 things; Expansion Packs and Stuff Packs

The Sims 3 has 3 things; Expansion Packs, Stuff Packs, and Store

Now The Sims 4 has 4 things; Expansion Packs, Game Packs, Stuff Packs, Kits

The Sims 5;...

I don't "hate" The Sims, but as a long time Sims player (going back to Sims 1), I can explain why I became frustrated and quit the franchise:

1. The changing the game from a God simulator/open sandbox/dollhouse game, as Will Wright intended, into a real life simulator. Sims 4 should've been the game that went "meta". Into the Future of Sims 3 was exactly where I think Wright would've wanted the franchise to go, where TS4 should've been about gameplay spanning multiple historical periods.

2. The over emphasis on mundanity, which really pisses me off to no end. The whole point of playing a game is to get away from boring, everyday reality, but the developers actually wasted time precious time and resources to develop gameplay based around mundane b.s., and not even in an ironic, whimsical way.

3. How so "GenZ" it is, to where it's alienating long time fans. For instance, I understand taking out some elements of gameplay because of how dated they are, but to strip out so much just to make it GenZ friendly was too much for me. I couldn't believe that they took out part time jobs for adults and other careers that have been a staple since TS1 (like military) and crammed them with social media-related careers.

4. The creepiness and other factors seeping into the game that have really turned me off. The people behind this iteration strike me as embodying the worst of both online and offline trends, as well as GenZ insecurities about physical appearance. I think the recent quality of life update that included bandages, medical equipment, scars, etc. were in extremely bad taste.

Tried again recently, uninstalled again the next day. I guess I can tell when something is a complete rip off and I just can't handle so much missing or incomplete stuff. It's been like three times in the last few years, only this last time it shows me that I won't install Sims 4 anymore. I really hate that game, it disgusts me.

I don't know why people hate The Sims 4. There might be something useful people could do in real life rather then spread their hatred.

Bananas! I've played no The Sims 4 in 2 months. I don't like it, I don't hate it, but yep.

Well I do, I hate him, and I say it out loud: I HATE HIM.

I am the same. I have far more to deal with in RL than spend time hating a game. I can see the pros and cons of 4 just like all the other versions. There ae some things I like quite well in 4 and some things that drive me nuts. When building in 3 I want to resize something, and oops, wrong game, or I want to be able to search things, or move a whole house, or whatever. Even though clay hair, I like the Sims in 4 overall. Sims 4 is fun to play a while for me but just does not hold my attention that long.

And no CAW, well that is just not good to me....I spend most of my time there.

I don't hate the game, I think it is just plain bad compared to its predecessors. I find it frustrating to play, sure. But,hate is a way too strong word to use in this context I think.

I also don't agree with how nowadays critical people are often being described as 'haters'. This is imo also a language thing. I noticed before that 'critical people' is often perceived as being negative. But I think that is ironic. You can't improve a situation without first taking a critical look. In my language, being critical is always based on sound reasoning and is seen as an critical way to improve a situation. But hey, I'm from a country where people are being perceived as rude by many visitors. So what do I know.

Anyway, imo putting critical people away as 'haters' is just a low blow. You don't have to agree with someone else's criticism. You can ignore them, counter argue or just agree to disagree. But in the end, it is just their opinion. Nothing more. It doesn't spoil the fun you have with your game, because it is not happening in your game.

Where it's probably never true hatred in the literal sense, it's just an easy terminology to slip into. After all, the psychology of true hatred is usually something expressed toward a person or group who are actively and knowingly doing some wrong against you, especially where you are innocent and not deserving of such ill treatment from those persons or groups. And are EA and Maxis treating you with respect and doing no wrong to you? Hatred it is then, in it's most subconscious form.

And many of the things wrong with TS4 to inspire any form of hatred - however misplaced the actual word - are not just the stuff of opinions. Broken, shallow, untested DLC is not an opinion, it's a fact. A mountain of unresolved error reports at EA Help, where volunteers do most of the work sorting and organizing it, is not an opinion, it's a fact. Monthly patches that break so much in nine years it has become a tragically comic epitome of what modern Maxis' professionalism - or lack thereof - is in the industry. Not opinion, but again fact. Patch notes that relay this old error has been resolved, or that old glitch has be fixed, only to find a few months later it's back in the game again - if it ever truly was gone for a short while. Not opinion, but fact.

This is just a low-key way of telling people that have issues with TS4 to shut up. This has been going on for years which has done nothing to change minds. People can only respond to what it put in front of them. As Coolspear has pointed out, a lot has been put out into the internet void for all of the sims community to see.

I have to wonder if TS1 were being handled like TS4 if the sims franchise would have taken off the way it did back then. Of course nobody can answer that question, but I can say that if I were treated the way Maxis treats players today back then, I would have never bought any sims related thing ever again.

I would be a hypocrite to sit here and say that I hate the sims while I have TS3 installed on a rig that I bought specifically for TS3. I'm not going to uninstall as I do enjoy my game from time to time, but I certainly don't put the time in front of my game like I used to because I have more important and unimportant things to do in life. If given choice, especially lately to engage in some mundane task or play my game, I'll choose the real life mundane task first.

For those that like scream about 'haters' they only like to see things in black and white. There is no in between, people either love TS4 or are a hater. IMO, not a great way to see things, but to each their own.

I installed Sims 3 on my laptop, with Praveen Reworked. Surprisingly it works better on my intel laptop than on my amd desktop. I've been creating families and playing for a week, everything works fine. ^^

As many of you have said "hate" is a pretty strong term to apply to most folks and their thinking about this game. As said, there are things I like about 4 and some I do not. I do not hate it. I do not love it. I am like Clint, it is MEH to me. I play at times, but it will never be my go to game as 3 is.

If I did hate it, I would just move on and never think about it or play it again.

@BlademasterX2 We (Sims 2 players) had a store too. It was a lot smaller than the Sims 3 store and everything from it has since been uploaded. But yeah, we had a store.
It also had what was known as 'Store Addition' Which acted like an EP with direct access to the store. https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/The_Sims_2_Store_Edition This thing was a PITB once the store closed. Because if the player tried to remove it, it would remove their saves, and if they tried to uninstall PETS it would also break so once they had it they were stuck with it.

That is great news! Praveen is a very nice world.

I did not say you or anyone else to shut up. Do not look at things I wrote like this, please.

When bad things came up over and over again, I just stopped to feel hatred. And just took as it is.
I felt pain during COVID pandemy
I felt pain when my relatives dead.
I don't feel it for some stupid game however. And that's not because I have no game issues.
I remember to see nails clipping sims' fingers, I got unnatural skin colours disabled for choose in CAS back on a days. I had to age up my infant manually as he did not do it himself. My sim was dead just because firemen did not came. All that have not caused hate.
If you feel another, well, I am very sorry for that, but for me there were some things that hurt worse.
Regards Vic

The Sims 2 store was only available for Americans I think? I know for sure that I didn't have access to it from Finland at least. Honestly, that was the point people should have said "screw you guys" to EA and not bought anything from the store, it was very clearly a test run for the Sims 3 store and people happily fell for it so it was easy for them to justify Sims 3 Store. Just the same way Curseforge now is a test run for EA-approved-downloads app, everyone should have said "no thanks" to that too and avoided it like plague but many are happily using it so you can bet that for Sims 5/Renee they'll be offering EA-Approved-Downloads-Only-Store or something that'll be the only official way to install custom content so they can make money on the custom content too.

I think we had access to the store online? I'm Australian. I think the Store addition that people installed may have only been in the US since the only people i know who had the issues from it later were Americans.
And yes, I agree it was a test run for the Sims 3 store, feeling out peoples willingness to buy extras.
Two of the big items were the 'Infant Dangle master' which is a mat with play toys above and the infant play chair. Both were suppose to be in the last EP Apartment Life then EA decided to yeet it and make it exclusive store content. Sounds just like EA doesn't it? People were not happy about that and they were the first things made available as free uploads by creators. Of course people bought the items from the store they were functional items and super cute. Like the bath for infants that the sims 3 store had I think?
I just waited for the downloads. That is a picture of the infant play chair.

I'm sorry for your losses. If I had the power to make COVID not a thing, I would have used such power. That being said, these are not excuses for the "hater" crap.

I don't feel pain or hurt when it comes to video games whether it be TS4 or otherwise. I have zero tolerance for BS that comes from companies like EA. I have to deal with enough companies that think they are Holier than Thou. More on that in a minute.

EA board members agree to give Andrew Wilson a million-plus dollar bonus every year and yet, the arrogant CEO has zero clue what is going on most of the time. He's too busy kissing the butts of his Wall Street overlords. When EA wants to flash a bigger stock price, they lay people off by the thousands instead of actually fixing problems. Sound familiar? It is almost as if this is EA's way of fixing games as well; they don't fix things. They bury all the broken stuff under bullshit and excuses.

Some real time Holier than Thou BS:

My mortgage company took it upon themselves to threaten me with a FICO score reduction a number of years because they refused to deposit my checks when they were supposed to. This didn't happen once, or twice. It was 3 times to which at that point they were reported to the federal government. It wasn't difficult for any reasonable person to see their bullshit when I had a stack of signatures for all the checks they signed for but claimed they never received.

Another example: My electric company up to this year spent literally years crawling up my ass about some trees that they were responsible for. Every year I would have things left on my door tut-tutting at me about how it is my job to get things away from their lines. I was told last year that the trees they had a issue with would come down. A year came and yet, more tut-tutting and still the trees remained. Instead of just being adults and dealing with this problem 4 years ago, they kept wagging their stupid fingers at me. After 4 years of waiting for a adult to show up, I pushed back. The poor multi-billion dollar company had to actually take some responsibility. Let me get out my violin.

There are plenty more examples of these kinds of things, but I think I've made my point. Let's talk about how this community treats each other.

About a month or so ago, some twits that tweet were verbally ripping each other apart over pixel eyebrows and whether it was morally correct for object infants in TS4 to have their 'ears pierced'. Maxis of course has nothing to do with that, but they don't help things either with their grand statements about how pixel people have feelings. These things just add more fuel to these fires; Maxis is okay with that. Aside from how stupid the whole situation was, I did make a mental note of the lack of victim calling. It is interesting how people can tear into each other over dumb things like pixel eyebrows, but the minute any heat is thrown at Maxis for their wrong doing, suddenly it is a earth-shattering event.

EA / Maxis are not children, nor are they victims. I realize we live in a time where everybody is offended by everything and all mole hills must be mountains, but there are no excuses for the BS Maxis and EA bring to masses. The fact that TS4 is sold to children makes things worse as children don't know better. They honestly believe all the things Maxis and EA spout and that their feelings are being taken into consideration. It's not my job to protect all the kiddies, but the kids should know when they the wool is being pulled over their eyes. If this makes me a hater, I will proudly wear that hat. I've been wearing this hat for 9 years which isn't going to change because Maxis isn't going to change. With every year TS4 is around, Maxis digs in and projects more BS. The BS gets more and more over the top than the year prior. TS4 has gone from dog houses are a form of abuse, to pixel people having feelings and smart ass commentary about not being a conformist.

Poor multi-billion dollar EA. People dare to call them out on their nonsense. If all of EA's Wall Street overlords did the same thing, the conversation would have been much different over the past 9 years. EA would have to really screw up before that would happen and even then, I doubt it. Andrew Wilson would be replaced and the nonsense would continue because like EA, the overlords only care about one thing... money.

Good to know. I never know this before since I only got TS2 from a retail version (in Asia), and my internet connection is really bad back then. I find it scary when your save games can be unplayable if you uninstall it too. Glad I didn't know that thing before (I would get really mad and cry if my beloved saves were corrupted, it happened before)

Actually it's a game that I've played the most, probably even more than a combination of 1 and 3. It just stuck in my old PC and I didn't have a chance to get it back (It was left in another province). My old saves probably still here and I really miss my Sims and towns in TS2, and there's a lot of mods that I can't count plus where was I downloaded too. It's the reason why I don't wanna start over. Luckily I have a plan to go to that province this year and I may have a chance to get it back!

EA would not be a multi billion dollar corporation if they were not doing a heck of a lot of things right. And like all corporations, they exist to make money.

They do many things that are wrong in the opinion of many, and I totally agree with that, but overall they do what works. And to think they will change is futile beating a head against the wall.